The VFX plugin

listy · 07-16-2021, 08:17 PM

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: Hello TACTIC VFX people. I was the original co-founder with Remko on TACTIC and most recently the co-founder of our new venture LOFT.
I'm currently Head of Production and Exec Producer at Tippett Studio in Berkeley, California. I'm very interested in where this discussion is going and the work that is being done on the VFX Plugin. Like many of us we are looking for an alternative to the current commercial products, namely Shotgun(grid).

The plugin is heading in the right direction! The big question is what would it take to be a viable alternative to Shotgun and Ftrack and when?
The industry needs this and I believe it's the best alternative currently in development - by far!

What features in priority would be needed to take it to that level ?
What are the current sore points and frustrations in order of importance in Shotgun and others that VFX Plugin can address?
What is the base-level functionality that most users and studios can agree on is essential?
When can it be viable and ready?
How can we get the news out and get more people involved?
What needs to be done in this community to support this initiative to make it happen - fast?

My experience is that we tend to only use a small subset of the functionality of SG. From my polling other users, every studio has its own standard set of tools and pluggins and no two studios are the same, but what they all share are similar frustrations.

Lets get this conversation going.

-G

--
------------
Gary Mundell
HOP / EP
Tippett Studio

Hi! I have sent the Beta request fo LOFT, will wait to see it by myself, looks great. Using .git for version controlling is interesting solution!

And about the questions, it's good, I would like to reflect on this, but i think it's worth create another thread for it.

> "What needs to be done in this community to support this initiative to make it happen - fast?"
Out of the box experience is number ONE. I never be there if 5 years back TACTIC-Team was made. No one wants to dig months to start using tool, so its really slowing down its spread.

garymundell100 · 07-19-2021, 05:13 PM

Hi Listy -

I received your beta request and we should b e ready early next week for you to give it a run through. We are going through some usability testing now so that your "our of the box" experience will be favorable and not hair pulling.

On that note.:

Hi! I have sent the Beta request fo LOFT, will wait to see it by myself, looks great. Using .git for version controlling is interesting solution!

And about the questions, it's good, I would like to reflect on this, but i think it's worth create another thread for it.

> "What needs to be done in this community to support this initiative to make it happen - fast?"
> Out of the box experience is number ONE. I never be there if 5 years back TACTIC-Team was made. No one wants to dig months to start using tool, so its really > >slowing down its spread.

Agree 100%. So can you list me the top 5 "out of the box" expectations currently lacking in TACTIC?

07-19-2021, 08:14 PM

Hi Gary, nice to see you here!

I'd like to stress these are just my thoughts, the things I'd like to see in Tactic and the things I'm wiling to help to build.

about the VFX plugin I agree with Listy, it should showcase Tactic to the newcomers, should be easy to pick up, and simple with just the basics but well done and well working tools.

I believe the if anyone can quickly install tactic (I'm a fan of Docker for that) and find out how to start using it with the VFX plugin and perhaps a couple of others not to limit the public to video production, many people will start using it and hopefully contribute

We know Tactic is very powerful, I had to work with Shotgrid in the past and I think the API is far behind tactic, but to appreciate it you have to know it quite well and very few people will go after the first try if it is not straight forward to install and easy to start using.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What features in priority would be needed to take it to that level ?

- As you wrote "we tend to only use a small subset of the functionality of SG" that's why I would start to clean, simplify and debug the plugin
- I think a successor to Tactic team is needed to let people test drive it with a fast and simple installation (hint on docker again)
- The new project wizard should be cleaned of the old "template" page and a page to activate a "collection" of plugin should be put in place so that users will be able to easily start a VFX project
- Add some views with plotted graphs and analytics on how the project is doing, this is essential to "reward" the producer
- Some work to optimize and speed up the web GUI
- The administration menus are a bit "messy" for example I don't get why we have a "project" and a "project essentials" menu and some tools lile the "manage views" are old and not entirely functional, these create confusion.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What are the current sore points and frustrations in order of importance in Shotgun and others that VFX Plugin can address?

The top point in using tactic over shotgun or ftrak is the fact that it is opensource, studios spend a lot of time and money to build their pipeline. I wouldn't build the most important part of my studio on a tool I cannot change and debug and more important control, see what's happening with the new subscription model at autodesk and the forced updates you get when you do not own your server software.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What is the base-level functionality that most users and studios can agree on is essential?What is the base-level functionality that most users and studios can agree on is essential?

I think cgwire kitsu it's in a sweet spot, it easy and many small studios in Europe, specially in France are starting to use it. I think it is very strong in ease of data entry an the UX its not perfect but quick to pick up, tactic is more powerful and the VFX plugin could easily match kitzu's functionalities.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: When can it be viable and ready?

I think with the right ideas we could have a some good results pretty quickly, I'm willing to help, some ideas and a little design document from a producer point of view like your could help a lot

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: How can we get the news out and get more people involved?

When I search for opensource software I usually start with evaluating the main web site, it's design, documentation and if it is up to date, I thinks it tells a lot on how a project is managed, in this regards the tactic community site is quite good, the documentation could use an update but it us well done, than I check the github page activity, how many commits, ho many contributors, issue and PR, again looking good for tactic than the forums this has been up and downs for tactic but now they are lively enough

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What needs to be done in this community to support this initiative to make it happen - fast?

Again I think some steering from a producer could help a lot! What does Tippett Studio need? What new views and tools do you think are essential?

Nachogor · 07-19-2021, 11:10 PM

We have been using our template for some time now and it`s very simple but comfortable, and we have created lots of python tools that use this template as a base.
Remko, Listy or Diego if youy are interested I can share the project. Now it´s in spanish but would take no time to translate it.

Cheers,
Nacho.

garymundell100 · 07-20-2021, 04:24 AM

Hi Gary, nice to see you here!

I'd like to stress these are just my thoughts, the things I'd like to see in Tactic and the things I'm wiling to help to build.

about the VFX plugin I agree with Listy, it should showcase Tactic to the newcomers, should be easy to pick up, and simple with just the basics but well done and well working tools.

I believe the if anyone can quickly install tactic (I'm a fan of Docker for that) and find out how to start using it with the VFX plugin and perhaps a couple of others not to limit the public to video production, many people will start using it and hopefully contribute

We know Tactic is very powerful, I had to work with Shotgrid in the past and I think the API is far behind tactic, but to appreciate it you have to know it quite well and very few people will go after the first try if it is not straight forward to install and easy to start using.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What features in priority would be needed to take it to that level ?

- As you wrote "we tend to only use a small subset of the functionality of SG" that's why I would start to clean, simplify and debug the plugin
- I think a successor to Tactic team is needed to let people test drive it with a fast and simple installation (hint on docker again)
- The new project wizard should be cleaned of the old "template" page and a page to activate a "collection" of plugin should be put in place so that users will be able to easily start a VFX project
- Add some views with plotted graphs and analytics on how the project is doing, this is essential to "reward" the producer
- Some work to optimize and speed up the web GUI
- The administration menus are a bit "messy" for example I don't get why we have a "project" and a "project essentials" menu and some tools lile the "manage views" are old and not entirely functional, these create confusion.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What are the current sore points and frustrations in order of importance in Shotgun and others that VFX Plugin can address?

The top point in using tactic over shotgun or ftrak is the fact that it is opensource, studios spend a lot of time and money to build their pipeline. I wouldn't build the most important part of my studio on a tool I cannot change and debug and more important control, see what's happening with the new subscription model at autodesk and the forced updates you get when you do not own your server software.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What is the base-level functionality that most users and studios can agree on is essential?What is the base-level functionality that most users and studios can agree on is essential?

I think cgwire kitsu it's in a sweet spot, it easy and many small studios in Europe, specially in France are starting to use it. I think it is very strong in ease of data entry an the UX its not perfect but quick to pick up, tactic is more powerful and the VFX plugin could easily match kitzu's functionalities.

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: When can it be viable and ready?

I think with the right ideas we could have a some good results pretty quickly, I'm willing to help, some ideas and a little design document from a producer point of view like your could help a lot

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: How can we get the news out and get more people involved?

When I search for opensource software I usually start with evaluating the main web site, it's design, documentation and if it is up to date, I thinks it tells a lot on how a project is managed, in this regards the tactic community site is quite good, the documentation could use an update but it us well done, than I check the github page activity, how many commits, ho many contributors, issue and PR, again looking good for tactic than the forums this has been up and downs for tactic but now they are lively enough

(07-15-2021, 08:55 PM)garymundell100 Wrote: What needs to be done in this community to support this initiative to make it happen - fast?

Again I think some steering from a producer could help a lot! What does Tippett Studio need? What new views and tools do you think are essential?

07-22-2021, 09:58 AM

(07-19-2021, 11:10 PM)Nachogor Wrote: We have been using our template for some time now and it`s very simple but comfortable, and we have created lots of python tools that use this template as a base.
Remko, Listy or Diego if youy are interested I can share the project. Now it´s in spanish but would take no time to translate it.

Cheers,
Nacho.

Being italian I can understand most of spanish words ;-)

Nachogor · 07-22-2021, 02:43 PM

Great! Anyway the only names are columns and stypes, we could re-write it in the spts. My question is if you are interested in taking a look to the template.

Cheers,
Nacho

listy · 07-22-2021, 04:23 PM

(07-22-2021, 02:43 PM)Nachogor Wrote: Great! Anyway the only names are columns and stypes, we could re-write it in the spts. My question is if you are interested in taking a look to the template.

Cheers,
Nacho

Show it!

***remkonoteboom*** · 07-22-2021, 04:41 PM

Moving forward, there are a couple of things we can do:

1) Have a primary template VFX module that is shipped with TACTIC (we can start)
2) Have a location on the community site ... or house it on github and list on the community site showing user contributed templates for productions.

listy · 07-22-2021, 04:44 PM

(07-22-2021, 04:41 PM)remkonoteboom Wrote: Moving forward, there are a couple of things we can do:

1) Have a primary template VFX module that is shipped with TACTIC (we can start)
2) Have a location on the community site ... or house it on github and list on the community site showing user contributed templates for productions.

Agree!
As it was with plugins, years ago